26 February 1999

IHRT Paris, France

PR: Elements and how they relate to one another, how they relate to other elements in TEI. 1^st June for first level description.

Lou: agenda items

Architectural issues

Are these the right distinctions?

Are we including what needs to be included? Do we agree what they are called.

Which subset are we proposing implementing by September.

What is Oxford doing, what is IRHT doing (implementation)

RG: Fields we want and their relations to one another.

Then how they match.

MD: What’s required, what’s not.

LB: Limit to a list (Claremont Conversations) and limit on time. Discussion of fields.

How do we understand these fields:

Lou questions why have <country> <city> <region> and not <location>. Endless discussion on worthiness of <country> as an element.

<country> political unit

<region> political subunit

<institution> and <repository> deemed "easy".

<idno>. MJD wants to add format, and loan information. Format because it’s part of the shelfmark frequently? Difference between loans and who owns manuscript. How to deal with things that are on permanent loan. Could go into <adminInfo> or <provenance>. <idNo> should be recorded either as previous or current.

Matthew the Unpopular: what to do about nicknames. Answer: deal with it later.

<span> span of folios (here, within a text).

<author> how to deal with how author is recorded in mss vs. who we know the author is. Agreed that we should be able to use regularized form. DP: connected to issue of rubric, which is important in France (author name in rubric?). RG: we want <author> to be used for both (as above).

<title> needs to be either modern or original, or both.

<rubric> before the text, title and author, beginning sometimes with the word "incipit". Although it is pointed out that this is a special word in liturgical sense, in 15^th century Spanish text, it is clearly understood (whereas something like heading would not be)

<incipit> important for identifying the text.

<explicit>

<colophon>

<final rubric>

Matthew: in the case of a fragment, does the beginning and end of the text go into what we are calling <incipit> <explicit>? Answer: yes

<format> codex, roll, or "broadside". Perhaps <form> would be a better word.

<support> vellum or paper, material type. "Support of the manuscript rarely changes" MJD

<extent> range of folios, here describing the entire manuscript, number of leaves.

<dim> length, width, height leaf dimensions unless otherwise specified

<layout> "two columns of 49 lines" ruled in lead, ruled in ink. Could have dimensions?

<script> characterization of type of script

<scribe> who writing is ascribed to. Hand or an actual scribe. "written in three hands" vs. giving a name to that person. We might need something to put number of hands. PS: Needs also to tie to range of folios.

<music> is it there or not, telling you what the manuscript looks like. Some people note it as part of layout.

<damage> we want it, we should have it. Or <condition>

At this point, Lou brings up his architectural point, which is that some of these elements are going to need to be included at other places.

<decoration> same as with script above. Note its presence, say who did it (if you know) and describe it. <iconography>? Lou means specifically "the Virgin". PS says this is going way too far. Representational of something as a definition of iconography. Not there purely as ornament, additionally in paint or in pen. Can of worms. RG suggests maybe we should have decoration overview. PS: iconography, paint, pen, none, separate form from technique. <artist> CWD/AC: decoration needs to be tied to where it belongs in the text.

<binding> same as with decoration, quite complication. LB: how to deal with binding as part of provenance? Can of Worms (COW). Prose description of binding. <binder> is needed.

<provenance>

<origins> where it was produced, dates

<ownership/provenance> who owned it, evidence, dates

Provenance is the forth dimension

<listBibl> bibliography for the manuscript, DiRicci etc.

<source> sources consulted, source of information. Maybe these two can be rolled together under a <revisHist> type thing.

<adminInfo> library management. "Dangerous information." Differences between European and American libraries. Collection management information.

<altFormAvail> we need it. Where does it belong.

<part>

LL: heraldry and what sort of an order it was that owned/produced.

Matthew's list of things he wants to add:

Accompanying material: i.e. AM slips. (slips, flies, and bodies). Suggested to deal with them as parts, provenance. PS has letters that are similarly "accompanying". Bound in, binding, annotation.

Rubricating description (CWD says this is a decoration issue because it helps you determine the cost of the book, the amount of trouble that someone put into it)

Foliation (foliated in green ink in the 14^th century). PS suggests that running heads and indexes are like these in being paratexual aids

Collation

Marginalia (both text and decoration in Matthew's opinion). LL suggests taking Matthew's very important textual marginalia (the ink text) as its own text. Suggestion that it be annotation. Not just text.

CWD: summary (tombstone). Author, title, place, date. Lou suggests another type of summary, outline of the "plot". Not this second.

Discussion of cross language problems. This is simply not something that MASTER can address at this point.

Short form vs. long form: people must be able to enter in this field by September or what is required.

Richard suggests having a summary statement for each larger element. MP and PR suggest having elements in <P>.

Back to short vs. long. RG suggests looking at EAMMS list and adding to it.

Architecture:

1. Header and body

2. How does this fit into existing bibliographic standards (compliment? replace? expand?)

3. How do manuscript descriptions themselves hinge together.

4. How does this fit into the existing TEI?

PS: what am I going to search on? Rare words, date, place, iconography, keywords. After that, reading the paragraph will unlock everything. CWD: would ANYONE search on collation formulae?

We are, as a group, are interested in creating a system where descriptions can exist in header and body equally.

Some of these are phrase level, some are "crystals" and we have to design an overall structure.